I was fairly sure it wouldn't turn out to be sensible SGML :-) But it works in Mozilla, in IE and in w3m, so in practice it's fine by me for the moment.
What I'd really like would be an LJ construction that produced the user icon or the community icon depending on whether the journal in question was a community. Or a counterpart to %%altposter%%, which triggered in precisely the opposite circumstances. Then I could dispense with the whole tangled mess and do it properly...
The new style system is a full programming language, tweaked for templating, but sandboxed so you can't muck with the host system. No %%%% rubbish.
S2 will eventually become the default, but we're working on the site's distributed memory cachce (http://www.livejournal.com/community/lj_maintenance/60984.html) before we officially announce it.
BTW, S2 also lets you customize the comments and reply pages.
I probably will at some point. I wasn't entirely sure whether it would solve my problem, so I hesitated to spend all the effort in case it turned out not to... If it's a full programming language then I'm sure it'll be fine.
Still, it can wait for a while now I have this stopgap hack :-)
(BTW, it occurs to me that this trick might allow a malicious style designer to sneak a nasty HTML tag past the checks in cleanhtml.pl, by doing something along the lines of <!-- -%%foo%%-> <html intention="malicious"> <!-- -->, so that HTML::TokeParser thinks it's all a big comment but when a real browser sees it the stuff in the middle becomes active. Perhaps cleanhtml.pl might have been better applied to the HTML after expanding all the variables and gluing together all the bits and pieces of the style...)
We used to HTML-clean each entry for entry-specific rules (like lj-cut expansion) and then clean the whole page, but we cut off that final step to improve performance after we started caching a pre-cleaned version of the style first.
Of course, there are any number of ways to make the style and entries cooperate to acheive a malicious result, so we go to great lengths to detect a bunch of other hacks like yours and break them enough so they don't work. Yours might be new and actually slip through. I'll look into it.
The lame fix might be as easy as replacing all occurrences of %%- with %%- or %% -
In any case, 90+% of the world uses IE6, and IE6 introduced the "http-only" cookie, which we use, so even if people sneak JavaScript it, they can't read 90% of people's sessions. The remaining 10% either use fancy browsers which optionally disable access to cookies from JS, or those users are paranoid and do IP-bound login sessions, so if their session cookie is stolen, it's useless.
Heh... we used to just put the easily-replayable md5 password in the cookie. :P We've come a little ways since then. ;)
50% IE6 25% IE5.5 10% IE5 5% Minority browsers on Windows 10% Everyone else
Of course, I guess that Livejournal doesn't have a representative group of all internet users, any more than anything else (short of maybe google) does.
Sorry, I guess what I meant to write was: 90% of the world uses IE, most of which are IE6. But you're right... IE6 isn't that dominant. The lesser IEs account for quite a bit.
Where do those "89.8%" and "0.02%" figures come from? They seem like sheer speculation - conventional wisdom says the proportion of non-IE browsers is very small, but then it's largely based on User-Agent and a few more bogus techniques.
What we do know is that nearly all non-IE browsers have an option to fake the User-Agent, as do most proxies and suchlike tools.
[It is also interesting that the UK's largest Web-on-TV service fakes User-Agent as IE, as well.]
In the same way one can TCP-fingerprint an OS, I'm sure I could spend a little more effort and fingerprint the real browser based on HTTP behavior, but I don't think it's worth it....
I can't believe it's more than a few percent.
(I only use Mozilla on Linux, so I'm no pro-IE junkie, either... I'm just being realistic....)
I don't think it's more than a few percent either, but all I'm saying is that I don't _know_, and neither does anyone else unless they do as you propose (on a large traffic site that's accessible to all browsers - can you think of anything like that?) - and that to some degree our perceptions of what's realistic are informed by the common view that's based purely on bogus data from User-Agent (and often also on counting all HTTP requests, which plays down text browsers, and sometimes from sites that only work well with IE!), and so our idea of what's realistic might actually be quite wrong.
BTW, while I'm bypassing the proper channels to bug you about stuff, can I ask if all this new styles stuff is likely to make it feasible for users to view other people's comments pages (and ideally journals) in a style of their choosing?
[I'm only one person, but the day you implement that, I'll be a paid user. :-]
I wonder if Google's Zeitgeist takes into account user-agent spoofing. They'd be the ideal people to publish accurate numbers.
S2 will let you, yes, but all S2 stuff is on hold for performance work right now. I figure I'll resume S2 in a week.
I think we decided there will be an option, "[ ] Show friends' entries in my style", which will turn all links on your friends page into having "?style=mine". And that style=mine will work on any S1 or S2 URL as well.
Woo! I've now made the switch, and I have to say I'm impressed. Not so much with the language itself - any vaguely plausible language would have done as well - but with the excellent abstraction in the Generator layout. I've just designed a knockoff of Generator with much the same tweaks as the S1 version I did last week, and nearly all the changes I made on the friends page Just Worked when transferred to other page types. It is my considered opinion that S2 rocks. :-)
![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
I was fairly sure it wouldn't turn out to be sensible SGML :-) But it works in Mozilla, in IE and in w3m, so in practice it's fine by me for the moment.
What I'd really like would be an LJ construction that produced the user icon or the community icon depending on whether the journal in question was a community. Or a counterpart to
%%altposter%%, which triggered in precisely the opposite circumstances. Then I could dispense with the whole tangled mess and do it properly...http://www.livejournal.com/customize/
The new style system is a full programming language, tweaked for templating, but sandboxed so you can't muck with the host system. No %%%% rubbish.
S2 will eventually become the default, but we're working on the site's distributed memory cachce (http://www.livejournal.com/community/lj_maintenance/60984.html) before we officially announce it.
BTW, S2 also lets you customize the comments and reply pages.
Still, it can wait for a while now I have this stopgap hack :-)
(BTW, it occurs to me that this trick might allow a malicious style designer to sneak a nasty HTML tag past the checks in
cleanhtml.pl, by doing something along the lines of<!-- -%%foo%%-> <html intention="malicious"> <!-- -->, so that HTML::TokeParser thinks it's all a big comment but when a real browser sees it the stuff in the middle becomes active. Perhapscleanhtml.plmight have been better applied to the HTML after expanding all the variables and gluing together all the bits and pieces of the style...)Of course, there are any number of ways to make the style and entries cooperate to acheive a malicious result, so we go to great lengths to detect a bunch of other hacks like yours and break them enough so they don't work. Yours might be new and actually slip through. I'll look into it.
The lame fix might be as easy as replacing all occurrences of %%- with %%- or %% -
In any case, 90+% of the world uses IE6, and IE6 introduced the "http-only" cookie, which we use, so even if people sneak JavaScript it, they can't read 90% of people's sessions. The remaining 10% either use fancy browsers which optionally disable access to cookies from JS, or those users are paranoid and do IP-bound login sessions, so if their session cookie is stolen, it's useless.
Heh... we used to just put the easily-replayable md5 password in the cookie. :P We've come a little ways since then. ;)
Really? I'd've guessed at about:
50% IE6
25% IE5.5
10% IE5
5% Minority browsers on Windows
10% Everyone else
Of course, I guess that Livejournal doesn't have a representative group of all internet users, any more than anything else (short of maybe google) does.
I meant to say: 89.8% percent IE users, and 0.02% Opera/Konqueror users faking as IE.
There are also the stupid spiders faking as IE who are obviously not human and we shut them down when they don't obey, so we don't count those.
What we do know is that nearly all non-IE browsers have an option to fake the User-Agent, as do most proxies and suchlike tools.
[It is also interesting that the UK's largest Web-on-TV service fakes User-Agent as IE, as well.]
I can't believe it's more than a few percent.
(I only use Mozilla on Linux, so I'm no pro-IE junkie, either... I'm just being realistic....)
BTW, while I'm bypassing the proper channels to bug you about stuff, can I ask if all this new styles stuff is likely to make it feasible for users to view other people's comments pages (and ideally journals) in a style of their choosing?
[I'm only one person, but the day you implement that, I'll be a paid user. :-]
S2 will let you, yes, but all S2 stuff is on hold for performance work right now. I figure I'll resume S2 in a week.
I think we decided there will be an option, "[ ] Show friends' entries in my style", which will turn all links on your friends page into having "?style=mine". And that style=mine will work on any S1 or S2 URL as well.
(I'm sure I don't actually need to say this, but don't forget that the %% thing can go after the two dashes as well as in between them.)
Of course, if you "fix" this then I suppose I will have to take the time to migrate to S2 ;-)