Now I find myself using "a modest proposal" in some kind of meta-sarcastic way, for things that ought to actually be modest, but turn out to be a giant hurdle... :)
I think I used it in pretty much the canonical fashion, to propose a measure which would literally speaking solve the stated problem but has sufficient other undesirable features that it's clear that it not only can't be adopted but can't even have been a serious suggestion in the first place.
(Though, curiously, I hadn't known about Swift's work when I used the title yesterday. I had somehow absorbed through cultural osmosis the general tone of things for which that title was appropriate, and it was only after I posted it that it occurred to me to look up what else it had been used for. I was pleased to find I'd got it pretty much right.)
:) Yeah, I can't remember when I actually looked up the original, I know osmosis had filled the phrase in (complete with nuance) earlier on :)
Although when I use it in mostly the original sense, it actually tends to be something like how I read this post -- a nominal solution, which sounds completely ridiculous, and you describe as a "modest proposal" to make it clear you're not yet advocating it, yet you can't help but wonder if maybe it _would_ be sensible after all.
Mmm. I think to some extent it's a mistake to try to draw a sharp distinction between a surprisingly sensible-sounding wacky idea and a surprisingly wacky serious suggestion; the art lies precisely in aiming consciously for the borderline between the two. If the reader can't quite tell whether I was serious or not, that's a mark of success :-)
LOL. Yeah. I certainly enjoy living on that edge -- I like to measure the success of a joke by the length of time before someone laughs, assuming they eventually do :)
But I have to admit I also use irony in situations like this as a defense; if I come up with a wacky idea, I'll phrase it as a "modest proposal" in order to raise it, but not feel the need to justify it. Which is useful, if it invites some objective consideration of the problem and potential solution, but is also questionable, in that it would be more honest to simply say "I had this idea, is there any merit, or is it _just_ silly?" :)
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(Though, curiously, I hadn't known about Swift's work when I used the title yesterday. I had somehow absorbed through cultural osmosis the general tone of things for which that title was appropriate, and it was only after I posted it that it occurred to me to look up what else it had been used for. I was pleased to find I'd got it pretty much right.)
Although when I use it in mostly the original sense, it actually tends to be something like how I read this post -- a nominal solution, which sounds completely ridiculous, and you describe as a "modest proposal" to make it clear you're not yet advocating it, yet you can't help but wonder if maybe it _would_ be sensible after all.
But I have to admit I also use irony in situations like this as a defense; if I come up with a wacky idea, I'll phrase it as a "modest proposal" in order to raise it, but not feel the need to justify it. Which is useful, if it invites some objective consideration of the problem and potential solution, but is also questionable, in that it would be more honest to simply say "I had this idea, is there any merit, or is it _just_ silly?" :)