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simont

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Fri 2008-05-23 10:03
The what festival?

Rather to my own surprise and several other people's, I went to the beer festival last night.

This was the first one I'd been to since 2004, and not surprisingly since coeliac disease renders me permanently incapable of drinking (normal) beer, so one would naturally expect that beer festivals were things to which it was pointless for me to turn up. I was persuaded to come along anyway by a variety of lovely people, and I spent the evening drinking cider, which wasn't bad.

I've often said that the thing which annoys me most about cider is that very tart dry cider seems to be in the overwhelming majority, whereas my taste runs more to sweet cider. (And, to be honest, sweet alcohol in general; for example I'll always pick sweet sherry over dry even if the former is cooking-grade and the latter really poncy, and I'm a great fan of mead.) This was illustrated particularly graphically at the cider bar last night, where they had about thirty different ciders available of which about five were sweet – and yet, when I went back to the bar for my second pint, all the sweet ones had sold out first and I had to make do with medium-sweet. What's with that? Everyone appears to want to drink sweet cider, but nobody seems interested in making it. Aren't market forces supposed to sort this kind of thing out?

Two people went out of their way to tell me that before I arrived the Tannoy had announced the availability of a gluten-free beer. So naturally I went in search of that at one point. I couldn't find it, and eventually resorted to asking a staff member – who turned out to have just spent an hour searching for it on behalf of another drinker, without success. So I didn't get to try that, which was a shame.

My usual irritations with the beer festival as a drinking venue were somewhat mitigated by the fact that for a change it didn't rain. In fact I think this might have been the only time I've ever been to a beer festival and not had it rain us all into the inadequately sized tent. The bar was still a mad scrambling crowd and I still wished I'd brought a chair of some sort, but it could have been worse. And I got to see lots of lovely people and even meet a new face or three, so for socialising sorts of purposes I was definitely glad I'd gone.

As usual with beer festivals, I felt hung over this morning in astonishing disproportion to the number of units of actual alcohol I had. Never quite sure what that's about.

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[identity profile] deerfold.livejournal.comFri 2008-05-23 10:21
"As usual with beer festivals, I felt hung over this morning in astonishing disproportion to the number of units of actual alcohol I had. Never quite sure what that's about"

That's beacuse of all the passive drinking due to the large crowds.
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[identity profile] fivemack.livejournal.comFri 2008-05-23 10:35
My suspicion is that real {ale,cider,perry,comminuted-badger-juice} makers don't use some sort of heavy-duty filtering process that large-volume commercial breweries use, and so there are more weird toxins left in the result. An acquaintance of mine discovered that 1cc of isopropanol gives a hangover comparable to an entire beer festival ...

The test would be to drink the same volume of the same stuff at a beer festival and a normal pub, and this rather defeats the point of a beer festival.
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[personal profile] simontFri 2008-05-23 11:51
*nods* Trace toxins other than the alcohol itself were certainly the obvious explanation that occurred to me. I hadn't quite got as far as thinking about how those toxins got there, but certainly I'd have been after some sort of explanation that was common to both the beer and the cider at beer festivals, so your filtering explanation sounds plausible on that score.
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[identity profile] keirf.livejournal.comTue 2008-06-03 11:56
You'd like the ciders they sell in Finland then - they're all sweet. Kopparberg, Fizz, Upcider, Recorderlig. And they make some interesting varieties. I especially like the lime and wild strawberry one, and the starfruit and gooseberry one. The coffee cider, on the other hand, is disgusting.
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[identity profile] sphyg.livejournal.comFri 2008-05-23 11:29
I heard the tannoy and thought of you ;)
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[identity profile] stripey-cat.livejournal.comSat 2008-05-24 10:35
I've often said that the thing which annoys me most about cider is that very tart dry cider seems to be in the overwhelming majority, whereas my taste runs more to sweet cider.

A lot of the very nasty mass-market cider is sweet because it helps hide slightly unpleasant flavours. So people get the idea that real cider ought to be dry. Plus (assuming you start with decent apples) it is easier to finish a cider dry than sweet: you don't need to worry about fermentation restarting and putting you over-strength; also, just as it hides nasty flavours, sugar masks the nice flavours too, so you need more or stronger tasting fruit.

(And, to be honest, sweet alcohol in general; for example I'll always pick sweet sherry over dry even if the former is cooking-grade and the latter really poncy, and I'm a great fan of mead.) This was illustrated particularly graphically at the cider bar last night, where they had about thirty different ciders available of which about five were sweet – and yet, when I went back to the bar for my second pint, all the sweet ones had sold out first and I had to make do with medium-sweet. What's with that?

The same thing is very common with wines too: someone did a test with non-wine-drinkers, and the most popular "red" was hock with cochineal. We are programmed to like sugar, and dry wines etc. are literally an acquired taste. Unfortunately, everyone knows that dry wines are better, smarter, more elegant, etc. and drinks them even if they're not really keen on them. Of course, this doesn't help the quality of either the dry wines (because a lot of the people drinking them don't like them anyway), or the sweet wines (because, with a few exceptions in the smart dessert wine area, they're cheap and nasty).

Everyone appears to want to drink sweet cider, but nobody seems interested in making it. Aren't market forces supposed to sort this kind of thing out?

Not sure, but I'd suggest that the people who drink cider at a beer festival are (mostly) the ones who don't like or want a change from beer, which tends to be fairly dry and bitter, rather than the ones who would buy small-production ciders given free choice. The other possibility that occurs to me is that it's still fairly early to be drinking last autumn's cider, and the light, dry ones will mature faster than a richer, sweeter brew. Do the beer festivals later in the summer-autumn have a better range?

As usual with beer festivals, I felt hung over this morning in astonishing disproportion to the number of units of actual alcohol I had. Never quite sure what that's about.

How much non-alcohol did you drink, what did you have to eat, and how hot was the hall? I've never been ill from my own homebrew, or the cider from our local farm, when I've been drinking at home with plenty of water and a decent meal; parties in stuffy rooms with a shortage of real food and soft drinks seem a recipe for headaches.
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[personal profile] simontSat 2008-05-24 10:50
Interesting comment, thanks!

Do the beer festivals later in the summer-autumn have a better range?

I couldn't say, I'm afraid: beer festivals have always been things I'll consider going to if one crops up conveniently near me, but not things I'd travel any distance for the sake of.

How much non-alcohol did you drink, what did you have to eat, and how hot was the hall?

Hall? :-) The Cambridge beer festival is held on Jesus Green, mostly outdoors; there's a big tent containing the bars, but most people don't spend all their time in there unless it rains. I was outside in the fresh air for all of the evening I didn't spend queuing at the bar. I had eaten a sensible meal (rice, lots of veg, tomato-based sauce, a little meat) before coming out, and I drank plenty of water both before and after spending a couple of hours at the beer festival. On a normal Thursday evening I'd expect to do pretty much exactly the same thing with the beerfest replaced by a pub, in which case I'd be in a stuffy indoor room and probably drink more actual alcohol; and I usually wouldn't feel nearly so bad on the Friday morning as I did this time.
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[identity profile] atreic.livejournal.comMon 2008-05-26 14:25
Nothing useful to add, just that I completely agree with you (about wanting sweet cider / perry and it always being the first thing that runs out).

One explanation might be that people who run beer festivals like beer, and so don't have pallets that like sweet alcohol, and so think no-one else can really like it in a short sighted kind of a way.

(Fromes Apple Sweet cider, which comes in bottles from Tescos, is rather good, I find. No idea if it's gluten free or not, though)
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[personal profile] simontMon 2008-05-26 14:57
According to the guidelines given to coeliacs, all alcohol is gluten-free except beer. (Even spirits made from grain, because the distillation process gets rid of the gluten.) I might still be cautious of types of alcohol obscure enough that I thought the authors of those guidelines might plausibly not have considered them – I wouldn't drink anything labelled "barley wine", for instance – but cider is no problem at all. Thanks for the recommendation :-)

(While I'm here, did you ever reply to the email I sent you on the 16th? I had an embarrassing mail deletion incident just now, so I'm suddenly more paranoid that people might have tried to send me email and I lost it.)
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[identity profile] atreic.livejournal.comMon 2008-05-26 15:35
(No, I'm just being useless. I'd love to see you, life, while calming down is still a bit crazy. I know that this week I'm not 'visiting' because it's only a three day week, I think that next week I have vague plans already. The week after that feels like a very long way away, but is distinctly possible. What days would suit you?)
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[personal profile] simontMon 2008-05-26 16:32
Ooh, cool! :-) I'm generally free on Tuesdays and Wednesdays.
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[personal profile] simontThu 2008-05-29 10:51
<mild poke>? *hugs*
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[personal profile] simontMon 2008-07-21 22:42
<f/x: returns to weeks-old entry>

Hmm. I looked in Tesco and also Sainsburys, and both of them had Fromes Dry, but I wasn't able to find any Fromes Sweet. Is this some obvious misunderstanding, like it being labelled dry but actually being sweeter than the average dry cider, or is your Tesco selling something that mine isn't?
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[identity profile] atreic.livejournal.comWed 2008-07-23 16:39
No, there is Fromes dry and Fromes sweet. Fromes dry is nice too though, but, err, dryer than Fromes sweet. We have a quite scary Tescos that could cover small villages so I wouldn't be surprised if it has a slightly wider product range.
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[personal profile] simontWed 2008-07-23 16:49
Aha. Perhaps I'll have a look the next time I'm in the utterly enormous Bar Hill Tesco. Then again, I'm only there about once every few months so in fact I'll probably forget...
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[personal profile] simontMon 2008-09-29 14:49
Two months later, I did in fact manage to grab some Fromes sweet from the insanely enormous Tesco in Bar Hill, and it is indeed nice. I'll probably try to remember to get another few bottles every time I happen to be passing through that Tesco. Thank you :-)
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