Bored by the real world [entries|reading|network|archive]
simont

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Fri 2005-11-18 13:55
Bored by the real world

Having demonstrated yesterday that I tend to think more readily about how to do something than about who might have already done it, it's now occurred to me that this is actually something of a theme in terms of what I find interesting.

In computing, I'm a programmer rather than a sysadmin. One of the key differences between the two, it seems to me, is that a sysadmin has to be much more aware of the range of available software to do a job; they must know the pros and cons of the various options, and be able to determine the optimal choice to provide a given service in such a way as to strike the right balance between cost, reliability, speed and so on. A programmer, by contrast, is mostly dealing in the basic question of how to do something which either hasn't already been done or (for whatever reason) needs doing again. And one of the reasons why sysadmin attracts me much less than programming is simply that I find the latter much more interesting. I'm primarily interested in abstract questions of what can, or should, be done; the grubby details of what all the actual people in the actual world have done is of secondary interest to me.

This carries over without much change into other areas. A few years ago, for example, I had an opportunity to attend a talk on feminism, and I decided against it on the basis that it sounded likely to bore me rigid. The reason being, in terms of abstract moral philosophy and what should happen, feminism is pretty much a non-subject: you treat each person as a human being independently of sex except when there's a genuinely good reason for their sex to be relevant, and that's pretty much it. Everything else falls into the general area of how well the human race is currently doing at living up to that very simple principle, and/or how previous generations of the human race have made it unhelpfully difficult, and that's all much less interesting to me; once I've worked out what I should be doing, I simply do it to the best of my ability and move on to thinking about something else.

This morning I went to one of my company's regular marketing presentations, on the basis that I'd never actually been to one and I ought to at least have some idea of what went on in them. It turned out that a large part of the presentation centred around which other companies were doing stuff in a particular field, how much market share they had, what the differences were between what they were doing and what we were doing, and (to some extent) what we wanted to do about all this. And the same phenomenon turned out to apply: obsessively tracking what other people are doing is of very little interest to me compared to doing stuff myself. (Which is fine; I'm in the doing-stuff department, and the Marketing people are in the tracking-what-everyone-else-is-doing department, so they can get on with their jobs while I do mine and we'll communicate as necessary when the two interact.)

Of course, this isn't completely one-sided. I'm perfectly capable of being interested in what other people are doing if there's some reason why it's actually interesting: if it's a friend of mine doing it, or if it's something startling and new which I wouldn't have thought was possible, or if it's something whose results are important to me but which (for whatever reason) I'm not attempting myself, or no doubt many other reasons which I can't be bothered to list. But it seems to be generally the case, for me in particular, that ‘can’ and ‘should’ are of more intrinsic interest to me than ‘is’.

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[identity profile] xanna.livejournal.comFri 2005-11-18 14:05
Simon rocks, hurray for Simon because he rocks.

Hurray.
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[identity profile] pne.livejournal.comSat 2005-11-19 14:45
Indeed!

I find myself fascinated again and again.
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[personal profile] aldabraFri 2005-11-18 14:11
I get this too.

I find a useful handle on the company-competition question, which I'm also bored rigid by but which you sometimes have to interact with as a member of a company, is to think of it in Darwinian survival-of-the-fittest terms, where you can change the question from how can we put one over foo.com to what is the optimal algorithm for a company operating in this market segment? It has the useful effect of making real-world market vagaries into essential constraints on your algorithm, and so adding intrinsic interest to them.
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[identity profile] feanelwa.livejournal.comFri 2005-11-18 20:42
Re: your middle paragraph

I think most people in the world don't think like you do about the value of human life regardless of sex, and that's the reason that I think feminism is very much not a non-subject; and that makes it a can and not a should. We can change all of this within a finite number of generations.
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[identity profile] kehoea.livejournal.comFri 2005-11-18 21:09
As a matter of idle curiosity [to me] what's your perception of the relevant percentages?

(Hi! I don't know you or Simon, but I read Simon's journal now and then because I think he's a clear, good writer on whatever he feels like writing about.)
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[identity profile] feanelwa.livejournal.comFri 2005-11-18 21:15
Percentages of what?
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[identity profile] kehoea.livejournal.comFri 2005-11-18 21:20
For example; what percentage of people today (let's limit it to the Farang world, the West, because that seems to me where feminism seems to concentrate its efforts) differ in how they value human life based on the sex of the living being? How much of this can we change in this generation? By extension from that, how many generations will it change to effect it generally?
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[identity profile] feanelwa.livejournal.comFri 2005-11-18 21:31
In the Western world, I think 80% of people would say they believe both sexes are just as important, but I think 80% of people behave as if they subconsciously strongly believe women are less important. This is especially apparent in meetings. How much can we change? All of it in one generation, if everybody simultaneously stopped teaching their children these behaviours. As it is I would reckon between five and fifteen generations, as long as nothing disastrous happens e.g. the far right invents a mind control ray.

Why do you think feminism concentrates its efforts in the West? I think the opposite is true, that feminists currently make most effort and most progress in the poorest countries, especially in South Asia and some parts of Africa, where there is most obvious need for change and more unhappiness to fuel action.
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[identity profile] kehoea.livejournal.comSat 2005-11-19 03:13
Right, thank you for your judgement

I think feminism concentrates its efforts in the Farang world, in the West, because I've never seen anyone seriously propose invading Saudi Arabia; nor Pakistan; nor the Sudan because of their horrendous records on women's, and human, rights, and I think such a proposal would be very important to any women's movement that wanted to show an interest in that part of the world.

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[identity profile] feanelwa.livejournal.comSat 2005-11-19 11:06
There are better ways of doing it than to launch an invasion with guns blazing! The women who live in these countries are by far the people making the strongest effort toward sexual equality. UNFPA and other organisations are carrying out the quiet revolution against these injustices, by educating the population about the female body to replace the myths about "virtue" and "demons" that belie most of the mistreatment of women in the developing world. Once these women are free of their burden of continuous baby-minding and water-carrying, they effect social change themselves with alacrity.
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[personal profile] simontSat 2005-11-19 10:31
I don't disagree with any of that. "Important" and "tedious", sadly, are not mutually exclusive. (In fact, my guess would be that they're positively correlated, albeit not very strongly.)

In the case I refer to above, the talk in question was at Eastercon and was about the state of feminism in science fiction, which struck me as likely to be particularly poor in opportunities to actually achieve anything useful in the area :-)
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[identity profile] ex-lark-asc.livejournal.comFri 2005-11-18 23:17
‘can’ and ‘should’ are of more intrinsic interest to me than ‘is’

This points up something I've always thought is very interesting about you as a person.

You have the Geek Nature; you're interested in the possible rather than the actual. In your own way you're an idealist. But you don't have the archetypally geeky inflexible adherence to those ideals; you're a pleasant, sociable and adaptable human being, whereas I've seen other geek types who are so incapable of deviating (or tolerating deviation) from their idea of the Right Thing that it makes them irascible, misanthropic and stubbornly weird. I'd love to know how you managed to get your priorities so straight in spite of clearly having a high degree of geek nature; do you think you were born this way or do you remember learning it from your life?
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