simont: A picture of me in 2016 (Default)
simont ([personal profile] simont) wrote2008-02-29 03:03 pm

Hitchhikerianism

I was having a conversation this morning about the meaning of life. I suggested that one of the biggest problems is that it's such a vaguely specified concept, and another is that talking about the ‘meaning’ or ‘purpose’ of life in the first place suggests a presumption of some sort of intent in the mind of ‘whoever’ put life there in the first place, and hence a presumption of some (fairly nonspecific) form of theism. Which is fine if you're a theist anyway, but makes the question a difficult one to even start answering if you're not.

So I said that if the question were rephrased into one which is neither presumptively theist nor hopelessly and unanswerably vague, I'd be happy to try to answer it; and then I mused that actually it wouldn't surprise me if it turned out that any such reworded question was embarrassingly trivial to answer, and that the really difficult aspect of the original question lay in determining what non-vague rewording of it you really meant to ask in the first place.

This seemed like a basically defensible position to me when I said it, and nicely articulated the essential frustration I have often felt when discussing the question. ‘If you tell me what you mean by that, I'll try to answer you!’

However, it wasn't until an hour later that I thought about what I'd said. Giving an answer to the Great Question is relatively easy compared to working out what the Question was in the first place? Suddenly I realised I'd heard someone say that before, and it was Deep Thought.

So my philosophical worldview has apparently been subconsciously shaped by Douglas Adams. I suppose there are far worse people, but I'm still a little unnerved to discover that.

zotz: (Default)

[personal profile] zotz 2008-02-29 03:09 pm (UTC)(link)
My parents had a friend, Neil Patterson, who used to lecture in Philosophy at Bradford. A couple of Americcan exchange students once asked him, for further reading, what he thought the most important work of philosophy from the last ten years in the English language was. He thougth for a moment, said "The hitch-hiker's guide to the galaxy, by Douglas Adams", and thought no more of it.

Until a few days later, of course, when he had to explain to an irate Dean that he'd been completely serious.

[identity profile] valkyriekaren.livejournal.com 2008-02-29 03:21 pm (UTC)(link)
I'm reminded, of course, of the marvellous, sad, warm, funny, heartbreaking article Richard Dawkins wrote on the occasion of Douglas Adams' death. But then, I so frequently am, whenever I hear of anyone expressing either surprise at how scientifically literate and philosophically astute Adams was (or for that matter, claiming that Dawkins has no soul).

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2001/may/14/books.booksnews

[identity profile] valkyriekaren.livejournal.com 2008-02-29 03:39 pm (UTC)(link)
I was using soul in the non-technical sense, as well you know.

No, I wasn't suggesting that you were surprised that Adams was a philosopher at heart - but I've certainly heard his books dismissed as 'funny science fiction stuff' by people who simply missed the point.

[identity profile] mooism.livejournal.com 2008-02-29 03:32 pm (UTC)(link)
Has it really been nearly seven years? I still remember being shocked when I heard.

[identity profile] meihua.livejournal.com 2008-02-29 03:21 pm (UTC)(link)
*grins*

Actually, Buddha got there first!

A common problem in zen is the "unanswerable question" - when a question is asked which, in its asking, contains implicit contradictions or falsehoods.

The traditional answer is "mu", meaning in this case "no-question". Another common answer was to respond with a seemingly nonsensical answer, reflecting the question.

So, the question: "What is the meaning of life?" could be answered with "Mu", or the phrase, "Sunlight in the trees."

[identity profile] meihua.livejournal.com 2008-02-29 04:13 pm (UTC)(link)
Well, understand that "mu" would only be given as an answer in certain contexts; in the context you describe, there was a contract in place between the novice and the master. The novice had come to the master to learn and had accepted the master as, well, their master. (The concept of this may be a little unnatural to the modern, western mind, but was fairly standard in the cultures I think we're discussing.)

I agree that a master who only ever answered "mu" wouldn't be a very helpful master. But, the answer "mu" was given in the context of many other interactions between the master and the novice, and some would contain more of the kind of direct instruction that you describe.

I think it's a bit similar to martial arts work with an experienced instructor. Sometimes, it's helpful to get feedback from an instructor as you train with them on why your technique is failing. But, sometimes, they just need to stand there and be the place-where-your-technique-fails so that you are forced to find improvement within yourself.

[identity profile] kaet.livejournal.com 2008-02-29 09:25 pm (UTC)(link)
I think Zen masters probably lived and worked in the time before tuition fees. Students don't put up with that kind of shit any more. Unfortunately, they often don't put up with anything which does even slightly less than acknowledge them, as a consumer, as the unique centre of the universe.

[identity profile] kaet.livejournal.com 2008-02-29 09:30 pm (UTC)(link)
The advantage of Belnap, and Arieli and Avron's approach over that of Buddha is that they defined latices, drew up truth tables, and then explored various implication operators and proof algorithms.

A pedant writes…

[identity profile] mooism.livejournal.com 2008-02-29 03:35 pm (UTC)(link)
Although, whereas you say that if only we knew what the Question was, finding the Answer would be easy, Deep Thought found the Answer *without knowing the Question* and suggested that if only we knew what the Question was, we might understand what the Answer meant.

[identity profile] kaet.livejournal.com 2008-02-29 09:20 pm (UTC)(link)
I'd say that people often mean things like the following when they're asking for the meaning of life.

Most of the things we must do, or most of the things we choose to do, we do in order to achieve some other end: we buy soup to eat soup, we work to earn money, we exercise to remain healthy, and so on, they are means to ends. I think that people are asking "what are the ends", what are the things we do not in order to do anything, in essence what are the fundamental particles of motivation. It's become a sore question because the way things are structured in the modern world has little to say on the matter, on these "unhypothetical ends", but places great weight in them, as they determine the choices (the hypothetical ends). In fact it raises these motivations a stupendous height by almost everything we do being oriented around hypothetical imperatives (aka choices), and steadfastly refuses to give them foundation (by keeping us 'free' from such things). It's a bit like an absurd religion founded around a god about which it says nothing at all. I don't mean this as a criticism.

To mainstream religious people it's easy because religions usually have some kind of fundemental particle of tuit, the glory of god, or whatever. For the rest of us, the atheists and borderline nutcases, it's more complex. Just like the dividing of matter, and the tracing of pointers through a data structure, there are three plausible bottoms. First, perhaps there is such a unitary nanotuit (either objective or subjecitve). Second, perhaps it's circular, or otherwise self-referential. An A is made of a B and a C; a B of an A and a B; a C of an A and a B. Or the parent of the top of a tree is itself. Third, perhaps it just goes on forever in infinite regress.

[identity profile] kaet.livejournal.com 2008-03-03 02:08 pm (UTC)(link)
I don't consider that a mu at all: to me you've provided a good deal of information about how you feel about motivation! For example, we could go on and talk about the utility monster (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utility_monster), or the mere addition paradox (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mere_addition_paradox), or what your feelings were on the origin of "value", on spending a life in drug-induced ecstasy, etc.

I guess I see where you're coming from if you're saying that the "meaning of life" is more of an essay question than a mutliple choice or short answer one, :). But there are a lot of questions like that. Most famously "The Irish Question". I have no idea what that was, but I'm pretty sure it wasn't the kind of question which had a one line answer, :).

[identity profile] kaet.livejournal.com 2008-03-25 01:29 am (UTC)(link)
http://www.zefrank.com/atheist/