simont: A picture of me in 2016 (Default)
simont ([personal profile] simont) wrote2008-01-21 02:53 pm

Font-geeking and time-dependent aesthetics

I've had an interest in fonts1 since I was a teenager. I've never represented myself as an expert in typography or font design, but I can pick out a few more specific fonts than most people and I occasionally have strong opinions about which ones people should (or more often shouldn't) have used in a given piece of text.

Some of those opinions are basically orthodox: Comic Sans is the wrong font for almost anything, Arial is slightly inferior to Helvetica.

Some of them are really quite strong: when I was a teenager I used to find that text in Souvenir made me feel physically ill. I have a stronger stomach these days, admittedly, but I still think it's pretty ugly.

Also, I go off fonts due to overuse. I haven't been able to look Garamond in the face since I was about fifteen, not because there's anything wrong with it but solely because at that age I had occasional employment DTPing a lot of internal quality control forms for a friend's dad's small business; their house style involved Garamond (or some indistinguishable cheap knockoff of it) and after a while I found I was heartily sick of it because it reminded me of that work.

What's particularly annoying to me, though, is when I go off a font that I had particularly liked before. I used to be very fond of Utopia, for instance, and was therefore delighted that it was readily available in free software distributions. However, it turned out that its distinctively square look was a nice place to visit but not somewhere I'd want to live.

Another one in this category, in fact even more so, is Bembo, which seems like quite a popular font to use for (among other things) SF books. When I first noticed Bembo I really liked it, because although the base form is yet another unremarkable serif font, its italics are distinctive (by their narrow and slightly pointy general shape, and also notably the squashed g and the serif at the bottom of the y) and gorgeous. It has one practical downside that I've noticed, namely that the tail on the (roman) R is long enough to put large and unsightly spaces in the middle of all-caps text (one of the Red Dwarf novels, I recall, failed to notice this before using it); but if you avoided that trap it was lovely.

Unfortunately, everyone seems to have noticed this, and the effect is that it's become so overused that I now can't see it without feeling a bit bored by it. And that's really annoying, because it is gorgeous and I entirely understand why people still use it.

It's particularly annoying because I normally have relatively little patience with changing fashions; I don't want to be the sort of person who cares whether some given thing is this year's or last year's fashion, I want to be the sort who judges as objectively as possible whether it looks good and lets that be an end of it. I realise that my aesthetic perceptions will be subconsciously influenced by my changing environment in spite of my best efforts in this area, but at the very least I want to be the sort of person who digs in his heels and resists that fact to the limits of his ability rather than embracing it enthusiastically. So to begin disliking a font which I still think is gorgeous on the basis that it's overused represents something of a failure for me, and that annoys me even more than the overuse of the font itself.

(I'm inspired to post this by having been irritated by both Utopia and Bembo over the course of the weekend, which caused what's normally a subconscious irritation to come to the surface of my brain and allow me to see exactly what was irritating about it.)


1. yes, yes, ‘typefaces’ is more accurate, but the difference isn't critical to anything I do, and ‘font’ is faster to type and say.

aldabra: (Default)

[personal profile] aldabra 2008-01-21 03:20 pm (UTC)(link)
> and ‘font’ is faster to type

Even allowing for explanatory footnotes?
gerald_duck: (frontal)

[personal profile] gerald_duck 2008-01-21 03:24 pm (UTC)(link)
Why is it wrong, rather than entirely natural, to like something less when exposed to it more? Novelty is an attractive property.

As an example I feel is very similar, I often have to test audio equipment by playing music through it. My very favourite tracks I never use as test material, and I go sparingly with anything I'm even slightly fond of, changing what tracks I'm using quite frequently. For simple "is it working?" tests, I'll use any old crap.

At my previous employer, [livejournal.com profile] ethelthefrog insisted on using Time For Teletubbies as his main test piece. Sure enough, after half a decade I found myself hating it even more than I had to start with.

I believe this marks me out as a sane and rational person.

(PS: Palatino. New Century Schoolbook. Fraktur. I'll get my coat.)

[identity profile] gjm11.livejournal.com 2008-01-21 08:11 pm (UTC)(link)
Is that a list of faces you love or faces you hate or something else? I can't stand New Century Schoolbook; Palatino is objectively clearly very fine, but I find it intensely annoying just because of overuse, a bit like Simon with Bembo except that I never really liked Palatino. (Also, Palatino was never really intended for setting substantial wodges of text; you want Aldus for that, and it does indeed work better.) "Fraktur" to me is the name of a whole category of faces, mostly over-the-top like the one you linked to. So I'm vaguely hoping they're faces you hate.

Bembo's very nice. I haven't seen so many things set in it as to put me off it, for which I'm grateful. I have a cookery book set in Cheltenham (which somewhat resembles Souvenir) and can't bear to open it.

[identity profile] keirf.livejournal.com 2008-01-22 08:48 am (UTC)(link)
Indeed - it's not about fashion, just overexposure. I like mashed potatoes, but if I had to eat a kilo of them every day I think I'd be pretty fed up with mashed potatoes within a week.

[identity profile] cartesiandaemon.livejournal.com 2008-01-21 03:33 pm (UTC)(link)
I think you're raising expectations with that disclaimer :)

That's interesting about fashion. *New* fashion is popular because it's different. But *current* fashion is popular because it's what everyone else has. Simply because it's like fashion isn't a bad thing, liking something only because of fashion is what you may be proud of not tending to do.

[identity profile] feanelwa.livejournal.com 2008-01-21 04:37 pm (UTC)(link)
If you wanted to be picky you would have written fount, as exhorted by Frank King, so.

[identity profile] feanelwa.livejournal.com 2008-01-21 04:39 pm (UTC)(link)
I honestly never notice fonts unless they are actually illegible like heavy machine cursive (hand cursive is more context-dependent and therefore easier, also usually mine). Perhaps though this is another hidden factor on whether I can keep reading a paper or not.

[identity profile] azekeil.livejournal.com 2008-01-21 05:34 pm (UTC)(link)
I prefer Tahoma (http://www.identifont.com/find?font=tahoma&q=Go) on web pages, email clients and the like, in 8-10pt depending on aliasing, screen resolution, etc.

[identity profile] 1ngi.livejournal.com 2008-01-21 05:51 pm (UTC)(link)
And of course to a typeface one must add the vital skill of typography or you can destroy something that is perfectly wonderful.

"typography is a beautiful group of letters, not a group of beautiful letters"

My favourite at the moment is Goudy (http://www.identifont.com/list?2+goudy+9+ERL+3214+O0+1492+6E6+528+5A1+461+5T3+440+6NN+433+C5K+416+4YT+413+3RL+313+MG+219+6VY+209+7NS+202+RW+137+KRC+114+24Q+96+24R+87+L8X+84+5A5+66+3PN+42+3PM+12+6WD+7+62J+0+6E4+0+62H+0+KZR+0+KZV+0+KRA+0+GV2+0+44X+0+62I+0+KZZ+0+ERF+0+F69+0+24S+0+62G+0+L03+0+L07+0+LXT+0+3RK+0+LTX+0+24T+0+3PL+0+L0B+0+L0F+0+ERP+0+LTS+0+L8Z+0+ZE+0+KRD+0+L90+0+3RN+0+3PO+0+HVG+0+MH+0+HVF+0+LNK+0+5A2+0+L8Y+0+ERR+0+ERS+0+IAU+0+HYJ+0) but only in print because it breaks up on screen so the current solution is to thicken the bits that break, which ruins it.

[identity profile] keirf.livejournal.com 2008-01-22 08:51 am (UTC)(link)
Mmm, I don't like the curved feet of the letters. They give me cramp in my own feet.

[identity profile] teleute.livejournal.com 2008-01-21 08:22 pm (UTC)(link)
And there was me thinking I was the only font-geek around (except for people who get paid to make fonts. I want that job...)

I actually know exactly what you're talking about with Bembo, although I'll admit it wasn't a font I recognized the name of. I have over-used both Garamond and Bodoni in personal documents to the point where I can no longer use either, and find them both somewhat disheartening or even unpleasant. I too get physical reactions to fonts.

When I set up the tutoring company with friends, one of the things I did was to reprint the same paragraph in multiple fonts to find which they liked the best. The result was Bookman Old Style, which will probably go the way of Garamond and Bodoni in my mind eventually, but which for now I find refreshing and new. It's a very nice font to use for 'education' I think - there is something about it that smacks of school books, and perhaps even the 'learning to write' books where you trace the letters. Something about the height-to-width ratio, I think. (My friends thought I was insane for even thinking about it. Clearly they underestimate the power of a good font, or worse, a bad one.)

[identity profile] bjh21.livejournal.com 2008-01-25 12:53 pm (UTC)(link)
I remember when I was trying to choose a font (http://bjh21.livejournal.com/101053.html), I rejected Optima (http://www.identifont.com/show?T9) on the grounds that it was too likely to be used for electricity advertising and bad science fiction. I rather liked Zapf Calligraphic (http://www.identifont.com/show?27X) until I realised it was Palatino with the serial numbers filed off, and hence (a) in everyone's printer and (b) a display face, dammit. I think I did well with Brioso Pro (http://www.identifont.com/show?I4F) – despite its loveliness, I don't think I've ever seen it used by anyone else.

Incidentally, I notice that Adobe's Bembo Std (http://store2.adobe.com/cfusion/store/html/index.cfm?store=OLS-UK&event=displayFontPackage&code=1297) includes alternate "R" glyphs with shorter tails.